I think he made another msterpiece and he's looking really French for me!
For all specialistst for the French Army of 1756, please tell me if you see
any unclear or special you want to see icluded in this new range! Because
the French army is new for us, too and not so easy to research.
Best regards,
Sascha
Very nice figure: full of character even unto his rather lugubrious facial expression. I imagine he will paint up very well indeed!
ReplyDeleteSYW is not my area, but this is a really, really nice model! I like the character of the face very much.
ReplyDeleteYou are making this all the more difficult! Beautiful work.
ReplyDeleteWhen you get around to making the French officers, they should be carrying a fusil in their right arm. Check out the Campaigns in Germania blog for a picture of Bill Protz dressed as a French officer carrying the fusil in the correct manner.
ReplyDeleteJim
Correction, the French offier carries the fusil in his left arm. Sorry about the typo error.
ReplyDeleteThanks a lot for your help and all the kind words...
ReplyDeleteI'm no expert for SYW but I love this miniatures. Excellent!
ReplyDeleteI thought the french had their sword belts on their waist over their coats and not across their chests...I might be wrong.
ReplyDeleteeye witness accounts in Germanys seeing French infantry describe them with the sword belt across the shoulder as well as long catridge pouch belts - placing the box almost as low as the calf - also the shoulder belt is confirmed by the Becher manuscript which is available on download on Gallica - de Ridder collection
DeleteTeilweise sind die Aufnahmen etwas dunkel so das man einige Details nicht so richtig erkennen kann, Bei genauer Betrachtung ist die Patroentasche in der Größe nur für Grenadierkompanien nicht für Füsiliere.
ReplyDeletegreat figures, the first French 7YW infantry as depcited by eye witnesses and the Becher manuscript.
ReplyDeleteI cannot see anything wrong with the size of the catridge box - Sander can you be so kind to explain??
I was delighted to hear that Black Hussar are doing SYW French. I like the green but I'm not sure about the waistcoat. I'm no expert but to my eye it looks too long and the buttons should only go as far down as the waist not right to the bottom of the waistcoat. In summary the waistcoat is in the style worn at the beginning of the reign of Louis XV but not at the time of the WAS and SYW.
ReplyDelete@Duc de Brouilly
ReplyDeleteThank you for the comment, I doubted the length of the waistcoat as well, till the sculptor rightly pointed out that they precisely see shown in the Becher manuscript, the last buttons of the waist - coat - due to the length of it, left unbuttoned, I agree an odd combination, but one of our main sources just shows that.
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DeleteThank you for your response Von Winterfeldt. I'm sure that earlier military styles do persist for longer than is generally supposed but I remain sceptical that this type of waistcoat was in anything like general use by the time of the SYW.
ReplyDeleteI can't claim to have seen all the Becker plates but, as one on this blog shows, they don't all have the older style of waistcoat: his waistcoat does not look any longer than one would expect for the period and the lower half does not appear to have any buttons. Having looked at some of the other Becker plates, it occurs to me that the ones with buttons that extend the full length of the waistcoat are also the ones whose waistcoats have buttonhole lace. Comparing these with other sources one can see that regiments, such as the Du Roi and Grenadiers de France (which also had button hole lace) are consistently portrayed with buttons going to the bottom of the waistcoat. Is there a pattern here: plain waistcoats – buttons end at the waist; buttonhole lace on waistcoats- buttons extend to the bottom of the waistcoat? Obviously only a small minority of regiments would have had waistcoats with buttonhole lace.
Concerning the length of the waistcoat, I don’t see the Becker plates as being conclusive evidence of long waistcoats, especially when set against other sources, primary and secondary (Michel Petard gives the very precise measurement that the waistcoat was 8 inches shorter than the justaucorps).
So I’m afraid that I remain to be convinced that waistcoat of this length with buttons along its full length is typical of that of a French fusilier of the SYW period.
I looked again at the Becher plates showing French infantry, the waist coats shown are definately longer than in the 1757 series of the Musée de l'Armée.
DeleteBecher shows the end of the waistcoat about a hand wide above the end of the gaiters - also the "split" or cut back beneath the waist is not that much angulated.
Monsieur le Duc - could you please so kind to look at those immages as well and let us know what you think
Many thanks for pointing me towards that web site. The plates are fascinating and I will certainly be revisiting this resource. I fear I still have some reservations:
Delete- given that the figures are drawn in a very naive style, how much reliance can one place on them having the correct proportions in terms of size of headdress, cartridge pouches, length of coat-tails, waistcoats etc.?
- given that only a very small number of regiments is shown, how representative are they of French regiments of the day? The majority of the plates represent foreign regiments in French service rather than French regiments. I could see only two French regiments represented. Plate 46 I believe shows the Du Roi. The waistcoat is distinguished by button hole lace running the full length of the waistcoat; a feature corroborated by the Musee de l'Armee plate and at least one other contemporary plate. The only other French regiment shown is the Piedment, plate 52, (also shown in the other post on this blog). The buttons here go no further down than the waist and the waistcoat is noticeably shorter than the turned-up tails of the justaucorps.
So my doubt remains as to whether the typical French regiment would have had its plain waistcoats (as opposed to ones with button hole lace) with buttons all the way to the bottom.
In terms of waistcoat length, the Musee de'l Armee plates certainly suggest a waistcoat shorter than the one shown on the green, as I think do the Madrid plates. (As does the Becker Piedmont Regiment plate as well?)
What concerns me more, from what I can see of the green (and it's not entirely clear in the picture), there is very little difference in length between waistcoat and justaucorps. I know its partly a matter of perception but to me even the Becker plates show a more noticeable difference in length between the two garments.
Please forgive me if the above has sounded a bit negative. For what it's worth, may I say how much I like the excellent march-attack pose and the superb detailing of this figure. I hope there are many more in the pipeline!
Thanks for making us aware of your observations - I will check the Becher again, which you can download for full at Gallica - type de Ridder and then go for immages and you will be able to download this interesting document for full.
ReplyDeleteAlso the waistcoats may seem to appear longer than they are, there the waistbelt is missing - there is is worn as crossbelt - which would give quite an unusual look for the longer waistcoats compared to the later period.
thanks for your comments.
Petard is a good source but has to be cross checked.